Warning! You are about to enter highly theoretical zone.
This small article is a result of a late night chat with ChatGPT about theoretical and practical limits of performance achievable using conventional lithography, so consider it a first collaborative effort of myself and AI. Also i will try to extrapolate this topic to Windows 7 environment.
If you’re a user of an old operating system, that doesn’t mean you don’t want to have a good system performance.
Just a quick note to point out an interesting fact of computer history. Amd recently announced it’s server beast CPU [Epyc 9965]
. Built in 3nm lithography, it supports 384 threads, a 12-channel memory controller and has a whopping 500W TDP. Windows 7 256 thread barrier is finally broken. As for an Intel, they are definitely can send their technology to the museum.
Imagery by spacedrone808 @Adobe Imagery by spacedrone808 @Freepik
¶ INTRO WORDS Numbers, numbers, numbers … i say NUMBERS!!!!
It’s been a while since i ran into the craze of pointless benchmarks. And now I’m back with the absolute procrastination stuff. Are you happy with this?
Take a note that 3DMark 03, 3DMark 05, 3DMark 06, 3DMark Vantage [2007], 3DMark 2011 and 3DMark 2021 are not marked by ▒ sign, showing the fact that these programs lost the soul of demoscene and just providing comparison numbers, nothing else.
Messing around with the recently purchased Ryzen 7700 i ran into some rather annoying power related problems. The computer and monitor would go into sleep mode after about 5 minutes, despite the appropriate power settings in the Control Panel and third party software such as Process Lasso and Park Control being residential in memory.
I had to break my head to get out of this situation and traditionally i am sharing with you the solution I found.
Initially, I decided to install Windows Server 2008 R2, attracted by the opportunity to have a server-class operating system with increased I/O throughput in the works. But almost immediately i ran into compatibility problems [no surprise here] with my existing software. Some programs refuse to run because of artificial restrictions [you know licensing mambo-jambo stuff], some of which depend on components that are not present in Windows Server. It’s sort of possible to work, but you almost always run into little glitches here and there, even after converting it to a [workstation]
.
It was more than a two-year long run with [44 thread Broadwell]
, quite a nice heater. I have really enjoyed running multi-threaded workloads on it, but it is time to move on. As you may remember i’ve already tried [AMD in 2021]
, just to make sure that it is possible in a Windows 7 environment. And now i would like to jump on the red train again.
Currently we all know that [Ryzen 7950x]
and more importantly [Threadripper 7000]
series are working just fine in Windows 7 environment. Upcoming Ryzen 9950x confirmed to work already, because it is using the same socket [mechanically and electronically].
And now for even better news: [AM5 socket will be supported at least until 2027]
, which means that Ryzen 10950x will work without any hassles also.
So, it looks like the Threadripper 7995wx and Ryzen 10950x will be the last chips to work properly on the Windows 7 platform in the worst case scenario.
Himmelskibet [member of WinRaid community] has just discovered that modern 48-thread workstation CPU Threadripper 7960X can work in Windows 7 environment.
He was able to execute Windows Server 2008R2, with working USB3 ports. Testbed motherboard: Gigabyte TRX50 Aero D rev 1.1. “Good” BIOS version: FA BIOS [dated Nov 23, 2023] Nvme testing is in progress. I’m pretty sure that everything will work fine.
Here is a proof image:
[Original topic @ WinRaid]
If it works out with NVME and it will not give BSODs and substantial issues we could count that Windows 7 is capable of driving 192 threads then.
I’m quite satisfied with performance of my current workstation. [44-thread Broadwell]
paired with 64Gb of RAM, fast NVME and [24Gb EVGA 3090Ti]
shape solid desktop tool. However i’m planning distant upgrade to achieve maximum speed in Windows 7 environment. Just to mark checkbox that it is possible. In 2021 i already tried out modern platform based [around x570 in conjunction with Ryzen 5950X]
. System worked without any problems, thanks to modern [CanonKong Windows 7 drivers]
.
Information confirmed by [author]
of [hacked modern USB3 AMD drivers]
.
Please, take a note, that: ASRock boards is not compatible at all, due to removed proper CSM module in latest BIOS revisions. Asus mobos are acceptable, but have some issues here and there. Gigabyte is just ok. So, consider MSI to get yourself out of unneeded troubles.
Imagery by spacedrone808 @Adobe Imagery by spacedrone808 @Freepik
As you may know X670 chipset is already supported by means of [CanonKong’s driver]
. [Ryzen 7950X]
is confirmed to work with Windows 7. Ryzen 8000 reported to use the same AM5 socket as Ryzen 7000.
CanonKong [confirmed above mentioned statement]
with his own commentary:
I think I will maintain driver pack for modern amd chips until out of my ability.
Ryzen 8000 still can work on Win7. So we can safely announce that Ryzen 8000-series will work without any problems.
Most of you already know how AMD substitute in terms of cores/threads count intel’s pathetic’n’degenerative CPU evolution into revolution. Drastic changes were brought by [Ryzen]
CPUs in consumer market in late 2017. [Threadripper]
and [Epyc]
lines were introduced later on [for workstation and server market respectively].
► [128 core / 256 thread Epyc Bergamo CPU]
It would be nice to see 256 threads in Windows 7 task manager, but i don’t think that it is possible due to lack of drivers.
Well known Chinese driver modder [Canonkong]
confirmed that [64-cores/128-threads Threadripper 3995WX]
based upon sWRX8 chipset works flawlessly in Windows 7 environment. Considering the news it looks like that more recent [5995WX]
will also work without any issues. So, we have plenty of headroom in terms of system performance. As for me, i have no need to switch to “recent operating systems” like Windows 10/11.
Here is brief [confirmation]
from the WinRaid forum:
As you already know i fed up using [modern Ryzen/Radeon hardware]
and decided to go a bit retro. Cheap Chinese clone mobos and second-hand high-performance cpu’s of previous generations induced me to rebuild my workstation and also fool around with Opteron-based server.
Here is [very detailed spreadsheet comparision]
of almost all available Chinese x79/x89/x99 boards on the market.
Like leaksters say Radeon 6950XT refresh will bring new 18Gbbs memory sub-system and [8-10% to performance]
. I’ve decided not to involve myself into GPU race and stick with plain 6900XT. It is a performance banger under Windows 7 environment. Imagery by spacedrone808 @Adobe Imagery by spacedrone808 @Freepik
▒ FPU OPERATIONS COMPARISON Tested with the latest version of AIDA64 v6.60 / Windows 7 x64 ESU.
FPU JULIA FPU SINJULIA FPU MANDEL QUEEN Z-LIB RAY TRACE 32 RAY TRACE 64 AES SHA 3 As you can see blue cpu’s eat dust in terms of FPU performance, but it is worth to note that memory wise we have backwards situation, thanks to shiny new DDR5 memory subsystem, which blue team is already exploiting.
Finally, I’ve managed to finish my retro DOS/Windows 98 build machine based on powerul Athlon. By finish i mean assemble parts on the table without any case. Why no case? Answer is simple: i’m lazy. And it is more convenient to me to keep it as open testbed for weirdo experiments of my own.
Collecting items took almost four months to accomplish this project. Puter consists of multitude parts, which were acquired around the globe.
UPDATED ON: 2023-02-15 Secure Boot now supported [officially]
!
▒ HARDWARE Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 Aorus Ultra BIOS: F34 [F35b breaks compatibility with Windows 7]
I think that guide will be useful due to nightmarish non-ergonomic structure of Gigabyte’s BIOS menus.
▒ UEFI vs MBR Windows 7 supports UEFI only partially, there is no native handling of this modern tech. I don’t see any reason to use UEFI, only if you want to boot from drive which is larger than 2TB.
▒ SOME PREFACE WORDS …. Is it really possible? Read on to find out.
Windows 200 is known for very fast performance, even compared to Windows XP and famous for absence of preinstalled bloatware. However, lack of drivers and software cripple system a bit. I was curious about ability to use this old operating system in 2022, maybe not as daily driver, but as a backup machine for secondary tasks.
Basic performance comparison. No conclusions - make your own.
Testbed system: Ryzen 9 5950X + Radeon 6900XT OS: Windows 7 SP2+ ESU ENG Benchmark tool: Cinebench R20 [last version to support Windows 7] 5950X STOCK 5950X OC 5950X SINGLE THREAD Imagery by spacedrone808 @Adobe Imagery by spacedrone808 @Freepik
Authoritative member of Win-Raid community [Canonkong]
confirmed that x570s chipset is fully operational under Windows 7. In terms of overall compatibility he recommends MSI boards. Please note that [Asrock motherboards are not compatible with Windows 7]
anymore because of notable BIOS changes. You’ll encounter A5/7E BSOD screens on random basis. The most distinctive feature of x570s chipset compared to x570 is absence of active cooling. Also it will support upcoming [Ryzen 5950XT]
CPU with larger 192Mb L3 v-cache.
Long time ago I’ve noticed prolonged trend to destroy advanced technology and sell cheap plastic things, powered by marketing slogans, which have zero significance in real life. Appointed trend applies to almost any products in our life, especially consumer and even professional electronics.
Some solid proof then.
[COMMODORE]
brought super advanced Amiga computer in the middle 80s, which had some really advanced stuff like GPU Blitter and Fast-Ram technologies. Nowadays Amd is working on stuff similar to Fast-Ram, which they call Smart Cache.
Quick breakdown of the most powerful AMD-based cards for legacy operating systems.
[X850XT PE]
► WINDOWS 98 [official drivers]
/ Omega drivers
] [HD 3870 X 2]
► WINDOWS 2000 [official drivers]
plus some INF tinkering, will review that one later on [HD 5970]
► WINDOWS 2000 [Blackwingcat hacks]
[R9 270X]
► WINDOWS XP [official drivers]
[6950XT]
► WINDOWS 7 [official drivers]
◄ currently rocking on that one under Windows 7 wing.
